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:wave:

where am I?

it was all a dream

:blobwave: Hello and welcome to our new public home for our maintainer community. Really hope this helps bring others into the fold! We?ve discussed a few times about having regular catch-ups and I am acutely aware of the difficulties of timezones with cross continent members, and everyones own day to day endeavours. I?d like to have some time in my cal, to spend with the maintainer/community weekly, where it can be a chance to discuss and showcase. Not really sure of the form. agenda and other stuff, but probably best with finding a time :slightly_smiling_face: I am UK based, but semi nocturnal, but maybe worth considering those in the EU timezones for starters, as to what might work for you. Are any days out of the question, are any times complete blockers? Feel free to let me know in a :thread:

I?m ready when you are. I think 11am or 12pm London time most days of the week (except Friday :stuck_out_tongue: ) work for me!

For all those who are asking for autogenerated tests - this is likely to be a step on the way: https://microsoft.github.io/TypeChat/blog/introducing-typechat/

interesting concept, thanks for sharing! i had a play with chatgpt when it first came out to see how far i could get with a domain idea. it?s kinda useful at points, but then the LLM dataset quickly shows it age. I keep wanting to put some time aside to have a play with doing something with Pact and AI, like feed it all our github issues or code. i did AI at uni, but i also get turned off stuff when there is loads of hype, so I haven?t really dug in

i saw a .netter mention they were trying to understand their pact net test with chatgpt and i think as they were using a new release, chatgpt really had no idea

Yeah. It?s not really there yet I think. I reckon it would be possible to build something pretty effective, but I think it would have to be a custom solution that wrapped something like this library

I think we?re a long way from ?hey, write all my tests?

Yeah you have to almost write pseudocode to get anything useful from say copilot, but it is useful for then allowing you to actually discretely list out the steps of what you need to do, to solve your problem when otherwise I might go a bit off piste!

but it definitely saves a fair few stack overflows

:mega: *Strategy Update* :mega: _NOTE: this is a repost from the private channel. Now that we have a public one, I think it makes sense to share it here. As discussed, I?ll be finding public places to track most of the suggestions where appropriate._ Hi all! Following up on the previous strategy update we identified several pain points that aligned with the current stated kernel and appeared as consistent themes in our workshops which we can and should get cracking on ASAP. To that end, and with the spirit of being as transparent as possible, I?ve been working with the team at SmartBear to consider how we can best support some of these activities and create alignment between the commercial and community initiatives. I?d like to communicate intent around the initiative we are calling _?SmartBear supported?_. You may have seen https://docs.pact.io/help/smartbear already, including a primitive labelling system we?ve been using to pick up tickets (into the SmartBear team backlog) across some projects. We would like to expand on this concept further. Some of this stems from our own customers wanting to see more support from us around the open source elements of the service we provide and some of it from within, wanting to improve our commitment (see also why we created PactFlow: https://pactflow.io/blog/why-build-an-open-source-company/) :dart: _The goal of this initiative is to find alignment between SmartBear?s commercial objectives and the open source ecosystem. The initial rollout aim is to start small and focus on key areas that can be improved for both parties._ What we have done in preparation and research for this: 1. Identified the key challenges for SmartBear (PactFlow) as it relates to the OSS project (see the ?Voice of the customer? image, with customer data/commentary redacted) 2. Brainstormed some approaches to address these needs and affinity mapped them (purple cards with yellow cards surrounding them) 3. Identified a number of actions we can take to improve that situation 4. Mapped these against the key OSS challenges (orange cards are the actions and the yellow ones are the root causes from the OSS strategy) 5. Worked with internal stakeholders to create alignment around what we would like to achieve and what we are able to commit to What we have come up with so far are four key areas. We are aiming to implement the following in the coming weeks/months: 1. Agree and communicate the SmartBear supported initiative a. What it is and why we are doing it. TL;DR - we want to improve the Pact ecosystem and take additional responsibilities in ensuring its success 2. Agree and implement a contributor triage process a. The objective here is to be able to provide improved support and responsiveness for ?in scope? projects (given the volume across the ecosystem, we may extend to all assets but we will see) b. This includes any issues, features and pull requests - i.e. preventing stale contributions, and encouraging more 3. Review and improve OSS/Commercial communications a. This is all about improving the communication and experiences where PactFlow and Pact intersect in public 4. Maintainer Experience a. Make it easier for maintainers to get involved, do their job and stay up to date _(there is bit more detail in the attached images, but the detail is still being worked on)_ *What I need from you* Feedback on the concept or ideas that could improve upon them. Particularly given point (3) above. I appreciate some of the workshop/Miro snippets may be a bit lost without further context, so please do ask/reach out if you want to know more. The biggest potential source of conflict/issue I can see, is supporting assets that are not currently maintained by SmartBear employees (e.g. Pact .NET which is quite active already but behind on some major features or Pact Python which is in a bit of limbo). A related topic on the agenda (related to point 3) is how to get non-SmartBear maintained projects up to the latest features, so we may need to solve it anyway. *What next?* Once feedback has been sought, we?ll get to work on finalising implementation. Some of the above we can get cracking on right away e.g. we can start to draft the wording and details of (1) to share, (3) is mostly an audit and proposed update, (4) is all stuff we?ve agreed to do previously.

In the next couple of weeks, I plan on: 1. Implementing the initial triage process 2. Drafting a public documentation page around the initiative 3. Performing the audit around PactFlow -> Pact touch points.

Separate note: I have asked one of the tech writers at SmartBear to review the ?getting started? and ?guides? section on http://docs.pact.io, and to help draft a style guide that we can follow.

Would we be interested in having a documentation style guide contributed from the tech writing team at SmartBear?

Or at the least, we could use theirs as a starting point for a conversation?

Sounds good to me!

Friday I made time to go through @tien.xuan.vo?s Pact-PHP working on moving to the rust core, and it is spectacular. ? The migration guide ? The fact consumer tests don?t need to change at all (and in fact can have things taken out of the users setup) ? due to not needing a pact test listener to write to file ? the integration of the plugins and test demonstrations (csv and protobuf repos) and the pact plugin installer It has been tough to review because it?s so huge (nature of the beast), but has been GREAT fun to play around with the end result. Really looking forward to getting some of the snag list cleaned up today, getting it into the ``ffi` branch and getting the announcement out in our Pact OSS post on Thursday - Draft https://github.com/pact-foundation/docs.pact.io/pull/269

Can?t wait to see it in action!!

I assume soon we?ll need to be releasing an alpha or something to Composer (or whatever it is PHP uses these days?)

you can load branches via composer, which will go in the docs, so you will require `dev-<branch>` https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-php/issues/262 > Anyone can start testing `pact-php` with `pact_ffi` code by updating their `composer.json` > `"pact-foundation/pact-php": "dev-ffi as 9.0.0"` Technically it is actually `dev-ffi-next` as I pushed up that to test it out on Friday but will be from that branch. I think we will want to publish @tien.xuan.vo?s additional packages to composer so they don?t have to be loaded from a git repo (which requires tokens to avoid rate limits) https://github.com/tienvx/pact-php-protobuf https://github.com/tienvx/pact-php-csv https://github.com/tienvx/pact-php-plugin https://github.com/tienvx/pact-plugin-install If these get transferred to the pact-foundation, we will want to add Tien to the maintainers group in composer I believe, or have a pact-foundation user, so we can generate a token for any other php repos in the pact-foundation org > I assume soon we?ll need to be releasing an alpha or something to Composer (or whatever it is PHP uses these days?) Yes, easy as creating a tag though, semantic versioning guidelines for composer are here https://getcomposer.org/doc/04-schema.md#version

tags are better all round tho, reading up on the docs, to get a deterministic package for the end user

1. It?s merged! Thank you @tien.xuan.vo :taco: :rocket: 2. Raised issue to track release https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-php/issues/324 a. cc @cfmack / @tien.xuan.vo 3. Updated tracking issue for latest updates on how to use/ test / provide feedback and contribute a. https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-php/issues/262 4. Updated README to point users looking for v3 spec + to the tracking i a. https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-php#specifications Charles - hope you don?t feel I am stepping on your toes here with the push to get Tien?s changes out. They are pretty through and haven given them a spin on and off for the last couple of months,

When i first met the tech writing team, i asked if they had one because I knew it would be valuable and didn?t have the prior knowledge of what excellent looks like from experience. would definitely love to see what?s in store. super excited to get some tech writers eyes across the docs for a bit of a review/audit of the estate to date, and provide some suggestions. I can imagine some should be relatively low hanging fruit and great for contributors new and old to get involved.

Wow, a lot of thing happen when I'm away for a while :v:

Top searches in past 3 months on Pact Docs

search with no result. I?m tempted to create a page on the docs website that says: > Kadena Pact is a stupid blockchain thing, made from people who decided not to google the term ?Pact? and ?contract testing? before they named their product. They therefore should not be trusted and you should find another tool.

:blobwave: Snyk is telling me a test is failing but I can?t see the detail. I want a green build for them sweet sweet endorphins xD https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-python/pull/357#issuecomment-1652581976 In other news, possibly janky, but does the job, Python FFI backed verifier side is available, and tested with plugins too :)

this is the vulnerability: https://app.snyk.io/org/pact-foundation-808/project/e9c5ba76-8566-4fb1-9045-d26403754ca6/pr-check/09e67f0e-c607-427f-898f-7e78bbb03aab

_(I think you should be able to login via Github to see it?)_

It?s this, anyway

in `requirements_dev.txt`

niente, however thats useful I can sort that :slightly_smiling_face:

Sent you an invite link in DM

:blobwave: Hey team, As part of our pledge to improve the Maintainer Experience, we would love to announce weekly collaborative agenda driven maintainer/community sessions. *Pact Community Meeting* Each Wednesday at 12:00 UK/21:00 AEST time we will hold a community meeting via a huddle in the #maintainers channel. Please see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v_QWyYEl7rxR5hV0EQAcTFjBbiq5_uzn7_WMMYILRac/edit?usp=sharing for an openly editable agenda where anyone can table ideas for discussion. We are aware the timezones will be particularly challenging as we are globally distributed and have a-lot of other commitments. Open to ideas, suggestions, alternate times etc. We are taking some of the lessons and techniques learnt from @jo.laing?s time working with the Cucumber community. You can see Cucumbers open agenda here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NbJDkGs4IgDUHDSA8W6WollVL0rnHDCMUxGPrzPPyiI/edit?usp=sharing

:date: If anyone would like a calendar invitation please let me know your email address or DM me if you'd prefer, thanks.

Thanks - looking forward to this! I?ll add some thoughts for an agenda later today

I doubt I?ll be able to make each week at that time, but will use the calendar to signal my intent. I wonder if we should use some slack automation/reminder here as well to get a :+1: / :-1: a day in advance so people can see who?s coming?

Happy to move times, and run additional sessions at alternate times to try and make it available to everyone as possible Slack automation/reminder sounds like a smart idea.

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:blobwave: Hey team! Adding @chrisjburnscg into the fold. He has built, transferred and is maintaining pact-broker-chart Repo :- https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-broker-chart Doccos:- https://docs.pact.io/pact_broker/kubernetes

The DevOps playground did an online learning session around Pact last year, it was a good session, I went along for the ride. We?ve just had a lovely ask to consider https://pact-foundation.slack.com/archives/C5F4KFKR8/p1690539743735549?thread_ts=1688662926.571029&cid=C5F4KFKR8

@tien.xuan.vo we?ve got a green light for an alpha release of pact-php with ffi https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-php/issues/324#issuecomment-1655589411 Thanks @cfmack

I can't wait for it. I will report one more bug on pact-reference and go back creating more PRs for pact-php after alpha1 release

Thank you so much for your time, dedication and effort. It really is very much appreciated as its very impressive work

yes!

Looks great. I think swag would be great, what are our options? SmartBear brand team or try and get some organised/printed ourselves?

This is a good idea, but I think something async might work better. I?m travelling for a month, so I won?t be around much at the moment I also can?t make Wednesday evening for any dates this year

Pretty much all Pact collaboration so far has been async, if it wasn?t in person (or the conference we ran)

> This is a good idea, but I think something async might work better. I would hope that this isn?t to replace async communication, but rather to allow contributors/maintainers a time to gather if they want. the agenda is openly editable and we can discuss anytime :) > I?m travelling for a month, so I won?t be around much at the moment > I also can?t make Wednesday evening for any dates this year ooh where are you travelling to? Thanks for letting us know, I?ve added an agenda note around maintainer avail and time zone preference. > Pretty much all Pact collaboration so far has been async, if it wasn?t in person (or the conference we ran) I don?t think that will ever change due to the nature of the beast. Pretty much 95% of my work has been async apart from a few video calls with maintainers

Thanks for the input dude :slightly_smiling_face:

This is why we?re having them in person Tim - to try something different! You might recall this was an action from the strategy sessions. I think it?s worth trying them out for a few months to see what works/doesn?t work. I certainly appreciate TZ issues (I?m finding I lack energy at night where previously I was in the zone) so we?ll have to iterate and explore this area. I don?t think we should make this a decision making point, at least not in lieu of a ?quorum? or other discussions as necessary, but if we can record and share the agenda and outcomes, it should still function well for async collaboration with an additional benefit of socialisation amongst not just maintainers, but the contributors and general community.

What is the thoughts on required pact-plugins being auto-installed by the Pact client libraries. Should 1. This be the preferable approach a. Should we allow configurability as to where the `PACT_PLUGIN_DIR` should be. 2. We allow the user to disable auto installation a. We allow the user to specify their own path to `PACT_PLUGIN_DIR` Thoughts come from https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-php/pull/330 I believe the following libraries with self load plugins ? pact-rust ? pact-jvm ? pact-php v10 alpha Happy to be corrected on the above

The main concern was running in very strict corporate environments, where you couldn't download the plugins and you may not have write access to the home directory. So they could pre-setup a plugins directory somewhere else.

I still think the package managers could / should be used for this. Pact makes a "publish plugin" tool. It makes packages for all of the main pact ecosystems, which just wrap up the plugin into the package (possibly with some wrapper code if the Pact client lib needs it). As a plugin maintainer, you'd publish the packages made by this tool. Each Pact client lib would know (by convention) how to unwrap the plugin from that package. So you'd require the specific plugin's package for your language, then in code do something like: ```pact.loadPlugin("somePluginPackage")``` and the Pact client lib (eg pact-js) would read that package, unbox the plugin, and load it.

Why am I mentioning this? 1) Plugin downloading / management issues all go away (or become the same as any other package management in that ecosystem) 2) It solves the problem of how to do required pact-plugins - the pact client lib just depends on the required plugins, and can load them itself

It seems we cannot record Slack huddles :disappointed:

hey hey so just a nice little chat today in the first session, i recorded a few bits down in the agenda. just some brain dump on times as it?s really inconvenient for Aus and I?d love to be able to have a window where we could have Beth and Ron. i?m not really an early bird but I wonder if an early morning UK time might be a good time to catch our side before work and Aus side just around work hours. i could probably go 7am earliest ( any earlier and i would probably just stay up as an all nighter :sweat_smile: ) I?m also just open to being quite available ad hoc in whatever format works for each individual, i know we are all different and trying to get full agreement is nigh on unachievable

^ I can comfortably make that time from September onwards. If they're weekly would probably come every one to six weeks

That?s a fairly decent cadence, if people are open to that. Once every 6 weeks we flip the timing around?

I know @pact544 mentioned that work hours events are hard for him to manage, and other times can be difficult with kids/family commitments. But perhaps an 8am call would work?

FYI I came across this today during some research: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/research/open-source-maintainers?hsLang=en Well worth a read. We can obviously be doing better in some areas, but it?s pleasing to see that we have independently identified some of these items and are working on them now

> Pact makes a ?publish plugin? tool. It makes packages for all of the main pact ecosystems, which just wrap up the plugin into the package (possibly with some wrapper code if the Pact client lib needs it). you could raise this request it at http://pact.canny.io Tim :wink: It?s a good idea, possibly, but not an easy one to achieve.

I think given the plugin ecosystem is so nascent, it?s reasonable to start small and see how it evolves. I don?t think a CLI is an unreasonably painful thing to use, especially given that you need a CLI for other parts of the Pact ecosystem now already.

At least, that was the thinking

Re (3): I?ve created a *https://github.com/pact-foundation/community/discussions/1* in the *community* repository to track this work. I thought of a few alternatives, but I liked the idea that this is GitHub native. The community repo right now isn?t that visible / useful, but after the maintainer catch up this week, I can see us building on that a bit more. I?d be keen to get thoughts on other places for the audit to take place.

@yousafn I thought the (empty) community repository was something you created, but it was actually me. 5 years ago :laughing: Maybe I should move the discussion to https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel and kill off the community repo?

UPDATE: I have deleted the community repo and transferred the issue. We don?t need more things/places to track stuff

Yes that was on my list to kill with fire, due to it being empty and taking up cognitive load. Nice work on the discussion pieces

Thanks, as you may have noticed they are all WIP but nobody is looking yet so I'll clean up Monday

a wip something is better than a whole bunch of nothing and yer weekend is calling

aww sad news about cirrus ci and free runner use https://cirrus-ci.org/blog/2023/07/17/limiting-free-usage-of-cirrus-ci/

This was Pact foundations usage (most of it is probably due to lack of limits on the tasks)

This is my own, I?ve got a paid for plan as well for private/persona repos at 10 dollars a month.

Maybe we should use our $$ to pay for the service? We get value from it.

I think my proposal is starting smaller- as in, you?d have to do very little. The existing strategy means implementing package management and reasoning about plugin dependencies

Can you perhaps explain? Taking an example, we have a community member who has created an Avro plugin. They wrote it in Java (actually, Scala) but it runs on the JVM. This plugin can be distributed to any language. If we wanted it in NPM, would we need to create an NPM package to wrap it?

Yes, that?s right. There?s an explanation above, unless you?re saying that it?s not clear from that?

> Pact makes a ?publish plugin? tool. It makes packages for all of the main pact ecosystems, which just wrap up the plugin into the package (possibly with some wrapper code if the Pact client lib needs it). This? If so, I agree that?s a nice experience, I?m just making the point that that?s a non-trivial amount of work, and definitely more than what the CLI has to do. I think your point though is that we may end up going a registry path, which would introduce a different line of complexity?

I think the CLI is needed where a package managed version doesn?t exist anyway - e.g. for a new language or language that doesn?t have the auto-package process, or even just the CLI verifier

I think it?s strictly less work than the current approach. Although maybe that?s already built, so it doesn?t matter

true. I think it?s a good idea though and will put a feature request for it. I?m currently thinking about how we do ?roadmaps? at the moment, but I don?t have any views so it?s just going to go in canny and perhaps with a tracking issue on pact-plugins repo

I like the general test that plugins should make Pact simpler

Then the core could be composed of plugins too

yeah i think so. you can get it hooked up with github actions and use a self hosted runner. i wonder if it?s just cheaper to buy a couple of mac minis and use them as private self hosted runners. but for now might just be worth paying something just for ease, (you can use cirrus-cli in gh actions so we can still retain the .cirrus.yml files we have today, and it still means people can use the tool locally to recreate the ci runs)

How much is it? We have lots in the kitty, and I?d be happy to commit some $$ to paying for them until GH actions supports ARM/Mac etc. properly (if it?s not drastically expensive)

They are already providing a lot of value

I shall get a tracking issue, can look at last months use, and then ascertain indicative cost and alternatives

Time is our most precious resource, so I?d rather us spend our time on the things the community most needs (e.g. Python, .NET upgraded to V4/Plugins, bugs squashed, documentation made betterer).

agreed 110%

hmmm so that would be $117 for Mac credits + $15 for Linux = $132 /mth :eyes:

My Immediate thoughts about the directory stuff ? What if we can?t write to the default `$HOME` location (`$HOME/.pact/plugins`) ? Pact-plugins support reading a non default location by setting `PACT_PLUGIN_DIR` ? What about libraries which store required things within its own folder ? PHP uses a bin folder On the plugin side, currently I've been interacting with the pact ffi lib through client library wrappers and download the required plugins with a cross platform `pact-plugin-cli` tool I was kinda thinking it would be nice if the pact_ffi could just go and make a request to get the required plugin, so the user doesn't have to know about it, and as a library author, I don't need to package seperate packages, I just the ffi and it takes care of it. That comes back to the problem of ? plugins being downloaded after the pact library is installed ? plugins being downloaded during a test (how do you know which plugins you need up front) Maybe that is okay for most users, they would download once and be stored. If you needed to download them prior you could use the pact ffi which functions into the pact-plugin-cli to allow a user to easily allow downloading of required plugins prior to a test, and can store them somewhere accessible to their code. I had a fleeting thought at the weekend about could the pact rust could be made extensible, so a user could easily build a new matcher or some kinda functionality, and bolt that into the pact core, rather than communicating via the plugin framework over grpc. Not sure of the _best_ experience here, and its tricky as some places are locked down, most people don't want the element of surprise, some people just want to write a test run it and everything be automagic

?If I understand https://cirrus-ci.org/pricing/#compute-credits properly:

> I like the general test that plugins should make Pact simpler I like that test for anything in the Pact world,

> build a new matcher Yes, this is the design I preferred

I think at the most part it doesn't make the concept simpler at the moment, but affords the capabilities to users. It's on us to really sharpen that user experience (and conversely the maintainer experience) through the docs and the critical journeys to what the hell is what, whats it's capabilities and why the hell would I need plugins. I'm just on a mission to get pact-python and pact-ruby to some element of ffi support and then its a big lens on the doccos. I am really love async apis work so have some lessons to take from them

Hah I am trying to make sense of that. I think that is correct. 1 compute is 1 dollar, macos is 5 times more expensive

> I had a fleeting thought at the weekend about could the pact rust could be made extensible, so a user could easily build a new matcher or some kinda functionality, and bolt that into the pact core, rather than communicating via the plugin framework over grpc. they could do that now, to be fair. The thinking - and really, evidence - is that getting contributions into the core (both Ruby and Rust) has been too much of an ask for people in the past. I have no doubt that if we spent some time thinking about it and making it as easy as possible, that we could increase the number of contributions. Matchers are a good example I think, because they are much narrower in scope. gRPC for example and Avro involve a lot more complexity, and asking someone to write it in rust instead of their preferred language, is a tall order. It also bloats the core a lot - plugins mitigate both of those problems.

Morning/Afternoon/Evening :slightly_smiling_face: Hanging out in the huddle for the maintainerati sesh.

trivys bug request raising goes through into discussion for triage https://github.com/aquasecurity/trivy it asked me a load of questions and gave commands to get the version of the libraries as well which is useful https://github.com/aquasecurity/trivy/discussions/4972

Huh, that?s interesting. I wonder why discussions an not issues?

I like that it?s clear

How do! I?ve put together a GH issue with some ideas for some workshops for Pactober https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/issues/20 Would love some feedback, and see if my thoughts aligns with any of yours. Additionally, I?d love to take some time to talk to open source maintainers both internally in our Pact world, but also externally to present some of the successes and challenges, and any useful advice. It?s a small world and we are all probably connected to many others in the open source scene through 6 degrees of seperation. Cheers all!

I won't make tonight sorry folks!

No worries dude! take it easy

Yeah, feel better soon @matt.fellows

Hey all, We got the Pactober site updated with the skeleton of a schedule and placeholders. I'll get some instructions up, so if anyone wants to host their own event, they can add one to the schedule, within the month. (just a PR and some html copy-pasta) https://pact.io/pactober You can just drop an asset in for a headshot, or pull from a remote source, if you've prefer not to store it in source. The source code is here for the page https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact.io/blob/master/pages/pactober.html#L262 images are stored here https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact.io/tree/master/pages/assets/img

So was interviewing someone today and he started to tell me what contract testing is :joy:

go on?

which version of contract testing did he tell you about?

Which version? He was all about pact. So that was good! And consumer driven so extra points for him

You just sitting there like hmmm, nod, sounds interesting, I need to check it out

Hope they are a hire :slightly_smiling_face:

Should have said what about e2e tests

I was being facetious - we often come against people that say ?I test against my OAS? and call it contract testing.

Can you imagine if he quoted your blog post :smile:

did you ask them ?what?s the cost complexity of contract tests vs e2e tests?

?and show me the calculations

Prove it!!

Ahahahah!! I love this so much

Nice! Thanks for getting this together. How should we get it out in the wild for feedback - link in #general and ask for people to engage with the content?

I won?t be able to make this week?s maintainers meet (I?ll be packing for heading away for some small annual leave). But the following week (30th August) I?ve suggested @stan.amsellem join us to discuss: https://pact-foundation.slack.com/archives/C9VBGLUM9/p1688393229363659. Have added the item to the agenda

Yeah I might split them into separate issues for each week/event. You mentioned about making a headline schedule page for the event, so we can have some little cards that link off for the workshop and a main schedule page for the birthday bash, and a template so that speakers can have a bio page, with details about their talk etc. I?ll share out links in the Pact post, asking in general is good too.

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:blobwave: Hanging out in the huddle for this weeks meeting, feel free to pop in you are about.

Hey folks! Who is looking to attend this week?s maintainer catch up? (I will be) You can propose an agenda item here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v_QWyYEl7rxR5hV0EQAcTFjBbiq5_uzn7_WMMYILRac/edit Also looking to get some ideas for future meets, ideas below (please thumbs up if you?d like to see it)

*BDD suite overview* One of the actions on the back of our strategy workshop. Would anybody be interested in getting a run through and providing feedback for the BDD compatibility suite @uglyog has completed here: https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-compatibility-suite

*Strategy Update* Some items we are working on (currently in various https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/discussions): ? SmartBear supported ? Issue triaging ? Roadmaps

Hey hey, So Slack have gone a bit silly with a new way of recording active users and therefore billing, so it means it is prohibitively expensive now. My big rationale was to provide a searchable history, in a easy to use manner, than http://docs.pact.io/slack. For searching, I use Linen https://www.linen.dev/s/pact-foundation which is hooked up to our Slack, and propogates all the messages in a nice Slack clone. it is now open source and self hostable https://github.com/Linen-dev/linen.dev You can get a desktop client, super cool built with Tauri and Rust note to self, update docs help page to tell people to search on linen Did anyone else have any other big rationale bar searchable history? Or would Linen suffice? I think GitHub will be the poster child for main discussions/longer tail stuff, but Slack is nice just for being where most people are (alot of works still use Slack) and its been our spiritual community home for ages (beyond the evolution of the google group)

Thanks for raising Yousaf. As per our discussion, I think you made some really good points about clarifying our needs: 1. Slack is great, because it?s a convenient instant messaging tool for many developers. The community I think really benefits from that engagement. The lack of history is the main downside a. we?ve never really taken advantage of other slack features (e.g. video calls, integrations) so paying the ~$50k USD /year fee for IM with history is just not comparable to the value received 2. Being able to have a searchable history (even if off platform) would help offset that, however we do need a way of making it really accessible and visible (otherwise the benefits are eroded) 3. We still have not got a great agreed place to make decisions a. Spec repo: https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-specification/ b. Discussions: https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/discussions c. Canny: https://pact.canny.io/ d. Issues on various repositories e. and of course this channel I?ll transfer some of these to your discussion board and put some thoughts, because they do overlap in different ways

Hello. I?m not really here. I?ve been avoiding Slack due to stress for a few months now. But I have finally created a 1Password team account! https://pactfoundation.1password.com/

Please share your pact email address with me (preferably personal email, not work, because jobs change, but pact is forever :laughing:) so I can add you.

Please put anything in here that someone else might need if you got hit by a bus! Or, won a billion dollars and retired to an off-grid paradise, if you find thoughts of buses a bit gloomy.

We do only get 10 people on the plan, but hopefully that?s enough.

I have to put in a credit card, and it?s $20USD/month so I?ll be claiming the money back from our OSS money pot.

Can you pay yearly so you don?t have the upkeep overhead?

Looks like we?ll need to find another tool for maintainer catch up?.hold up!

:point_right: https://smartbear.zoom.us/j/93783752739

:point_right: this is the guitar piece I had to learn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiKokl48SjM :guitar:

I love it, powerful one :raised_hands:

Great to see you both today @tien.xuan.vo & @stan.amsellem - thank you for finding the time :star-struck:

Yeah, it is!

It was really fun to play, stress of performing aside :grimacing:

Gosh, that is beautiful to listen to!

It was great to be here, thanks again folks :pray: Looking forward to be moving forward together :rocket:

I must also add this guy makes it look easy :laughing:

Recording of today?s session: ? Recording: https://smartbear.zoom.us/rec/share/UW-gGvqgciRiugTDD0pFHfW3xQFsoZ8GSAIl4tTGVfiyRwURU-IkUPcNFc6gqn5X.CaR4ZZATDyh-cT7R ? Passcode: `uaeAh9*0`

oh yeah, I guess it?s easier if you write the composition - but he still muffles a bunch of the notes high up the fret board, there?s some tricky transitions and a lot of little detail that I didn?t notice (or perform) on the first go. The bridge is also very fidgety

but it?s a lovely piece, obviously, that?s why my sister in-laws chose it :laughing:

I've added some notes to the https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v_QWyYEl7rxR5hV0EQAcTFjBbiq5_uzn7_WMMYILRac/edit. Feel free to edit/change/add!

Sorry I missed you homies, was in the land of nod. Thanks for recording @matt.fellows. Sounds like a good time was had. Welcome @stan.amsellem and yay @tien.xuan.vo!

Thanks Beth for sorting this :happy-hearts:

That's probably fair enough when your usual bed time is when people are just getting out of bed

watching now

Yes, good idea @matt.fellows

Ok, selected annual. Once it?s charged, I?ll work out how to claim it back! What?s the name of the oss fund thing called?! I?ve forgotten it.

Open collective

has joined #maintainers

Hi @joshua.ellis this is the public channel for maintainers

has joined #maintainers

set up a reminder to ?REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:! ? in this channel at 8:55PM every Wednesday, Australian Eastern Standard Time.

FYI I won?t be able to make the maintainers catch up tonight folks

You just have no commitment to this project!

I'll accept my 50 lashings

I suggested Josh join next week btw

No worries, thanks for the update Matt :+1::skin-tone-2:

Reminder: REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:!

Join Zoom Meeting https://smartbear.zoom.us/j/5795695925 Meeting ID:

Here is the slides for my recent presentation about pact. https://slides.tienvx.in/pact/ (self-hosted on my homelab, so will not be 100% uptime) Here is the source code for the slide if you want to view it on local https://github.com/tienvx/slides

Busts out epic set set of slides :clap: Love these, really in depth and well considered

also @aliciajforeman might recognise the pyramid xD

super cool that it is being hosted on your homelab too.

Thank for sharing these slides @tien.xuan.vo :star2:

@matt.fellows i?ve made you an owner and administrator, so if I run away to Majorca, the bills can still be paid. @yousafn I?ve made you an administrator so you can add any other OSS maintainers who need to use it.

Fabulous, thanks Beth and enjoy the margaritas in the :sunny: I?ll get some doccos up about it on the site, in our maintainers section, somewhere. There?s lot of useful information and a mindmap for maintainers of where to go, and who to prod would be good. Leave it with me

For this week?s maintainer meeting, I?d like to propose the following https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v_QWyYEl7rxR5hV0EQAcTFjBbiq5_uzn7_WMMYILRac/edit: ? Meet and greet with @joshua.ellis ? Discuss issue triaging process: https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/discussions/15

ahh just when I was thinking I could join one, that's for tomorrow not today isn't it :smile:

yes. Maybe we should find a different day to suit others?

definitely open to options

Happy to find an option. Given the broad range of timezones, it might be worth rotating through different times?

Tue generally better for me, but I wouldn't suggest changing plans on my account :upside_down_face:

That would be fine by me also

And me

https://smartbear.zoom.us/j/92311657471 for the maintainer catch up

Thanks for the agenda Matt, see you all shortly

Reminder: REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:!

Recording: https://smartbear.zoom.us/rec/share/3DbN31-FcjETaNNeloZKYHFu3TLwwT8y4E-vQcxT7hkon-QLf31SD7rQDYwomBBk.0r95LUgQNE3AsLK_ Passcode: `AYxs!8+9`

(Will be published to YouTube also :point_right: https://youtu.be/GvyNd6Swi6w)

So this is a bit bizarre! https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/issues/26 I don?t even know a) why we would have this restriction b) why of all things, http://ae.com would be on there c) why this is suddenly enabled? (maybe those entries were in the list from yesteryear, and for some reason the switch has been toggled, either by a admin or by Slack behind the scenes)

Wtf! No, this is not something I've seen before. I could imagine why DiUS is there but http://ae.com makes no sense. Can we revert it so anybody can join and we can share an unexpirable link?

So we?ve got 6 members from http://ae.com in our Slack, one has asked a question in pact-jvm so I don?t think its any nefarious. So if you select 1. allow invitations a. it seems to lock anyone from joining 2. allow invitations with domain a. requires at least one domain b. will also allow apple/google signups maybe we can wildcard the email domain to anything?

So if you check out https://pact-foundation.slack.com/admin/invites there are two users who have invite links that never expire. Just tried one that worked for me (2nd from bottom in the list)

Here we go, this is a never expires link (which we can deactivate from the admin page) https://join.slack.com/t/pact-foundation/shared_invite/zt-23bi0zdz7-2sIA1omqUhz69MuD5yeZjw

would we just need to setup a redirect from http://slack.pact.io to that link :point_up_2:

Awesome, thanks for this Saf - I?ve just fixed it now

For reference, fixing this is an update to the `index.html` file that exists in the `http://slack.pact.io` bucket. It uses a simple client side redirect

(Just tested it with a new user - it works!)

FYI this is the new slack user experience - looks like the ?welcome? page that slack used to have is gone, and only the greet bot exists.

a fresh more focused slack, care for us to distract you for a bit, whilst you forget about why you came here in the first place

if you?ve just joined, you don?t know its new

so why do they tell you ffs

that makes me think, what was wrong with it before. Like new CIF with 100% more cleaning power. *empties entire cleaning cupboard into the bin crying because its all inferior*

_Oh, why did I buy it by the bucketload!_

Hey team, I?ll pass on the maintainers chat tonight. _Maybe_ :stuck_out_tongue:_. If I?m about I might pop my head in_

Reminder: REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:!

no worries homie

https://smartbear.zoom.us/j/96124075972 :point_up_2:

:blobwave: Would any of you like to give a short update on your libraries, whats new and what people can help with? I?m happy to present, and we can just have recorded snippets if you can?t attend on the day (10th Oct) https://pact.io/birthday Or just some bullet points of what it going on, and I?ll pull something together. I?d love to take the opportunity whilst we have a captive audience to help bring in willing hands to help you all out, so I would implore that you consider taking the opportunity at any time throughout the month, to share with the community. Much love, Saf

Yousaf, I saw this in the recent post. > I?ve been thinking about how we could potentially create an extendable mechanism, whereby users could provide their own provider schemes, for alternate sources, other than OpenAPI, such as AsyncAPI. Me too. For example, supporting Contract Case files and (as you would have seen) this sort of thing: https://datacontract.com/

Need to wrap my head around it a bit more, but one wonders if the Pact Broker (and the CLI tooling such as `can-i-deploy` could support these contracts with little to no change). We might need a data pipeline specific command to handle a longer lineage of data e.g. in the case of event sourced systems reprocessing old events, or data pipelines that need to handle multiple years of data evolutions (perhaps the `released` vs `deployed` semantics cover that scenario already)

I have been musing how pact and data could work together for ages. I think I need to prototype it. But essentially what is here touted as a data contract I think is a schema with examples. As data meshes and data products become a thing I think this will be a massive area

Data lineage and traceability is a huge emerging space, and with recent advances in AI, companies are recognising that they need to organise the data they have to make it parseable. One of the big recent announcements in this space was Microsoft's [Fabric](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-fabric), which (from what I can tell) is trying to provide an end-to-end offering covering the capabilities of data ingestion/processing (data factory), data warehousing (synapse) and data reporting (Power BI). There's a bit of a crowded OSS (and enterprise) collection of tools that help here, and it could be cool if Pact can help verify the glue between these tools.

I've not had a project to go deep enough into to apply any learnings, would love your input on how we could bring that adjacent use case to Pact ecosystem. It feels natural in many ways but that is obviously a nascent and naive perspective

Hey lovelies, just a reminder that the maintainers meeting is tomorrow instead of Wednesday, usual time.

I'll be there! Thanks for the reminder

set up a reminder to ?REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:! ? in this channel at 8:55PM every Tuesday, Australian Eastern Standard Time.

Reminder: REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:!

Do we have a Zoom link? Or are we using a huddle?

@joshua.ellis It's up in the pinned items ^

Whoops sorry I missed y'all

Morning soldier :wink:

:blobwave: Is it possible to get access to the Pact-Foundation Dockerhub? I?d like to pull out additional analytics https://docs.docker.com/trusted-content/insights-analytics/

Done!

danke danke

FYI - we are trying to pull together all the various sources of where packages are published, and possibly download values, across the Pact (and also Swagger/Cucumber) estates and provide that information to others

M1 Runners now available on GH Actions but pricey https://github.blog/2023-10-02-introducing-the-new-apple-silicon-powered-m1-macos-larger-runner-for-github-actions/ They are decent spec however

Hey everyone :blobwave: Do we have the maintainer catch up tonight? And could I confirm the time? We just switched to daylight saving, so I just want to double check.

Good question - I have it in my calendar for tomorrow and at 10pm local :stuck_out_tongue:

Reminder: REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:!

OK so it _is_ tomorrow

I?ve just spoken to Jo and Saf (another call), it looks like tomorrow at 10:30am BST / 8:30pm AEDT could work (to fit around some Pactober events)

man I hate it when the timezones change :cry-pig:

Ok, so tomorrow 8:30 pm Melbourne time :slightly_smiling_face: I'll see you all tomorrow (and I'll head to bed then)

> man I hate it when the timezones change Yes. But I _do_ like daylight savings :stuck_out_tongue:

I won?t make tonight folks, need to rest I think

No worries Matt, get good rest!

Hey hey I don?t have a zoom link in my cal, just checking online (my mac cal often doesn?t sync)

I miss this one. Can you invite me so I can see an event on my calendar?

Sorry @tien.xuan.vo we missed seeing you :disappointed: I have added you to the calendar invitation. Next week (Wednesday 11th) the meeting is from 10:15 BST for 45 minute duration. (I've updated the duration from 30 minutes to 45 minutes for now as we over run most weeks and there is a lot to talk about it seems!)

I saw the invitation. Thanks @jo.laing

You're welcome. Thank you so much for making the effort to join the Pactober celebrations this week. @yousafn and I have loved seeing you there :pray::skin-tone-2:

Sorry dude! Glad you have one now. Agreed, its been lovely to have you watching the events so far, really appreciate it when we are amongst friends

fyi I found the zoom link, its in the pinned items at the top of the channel

Awesome, somebody asked for this!

I found this just today, and I think its def worth while uploading

Reminder: REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:!

Lies! :stuck_out_tongue:

We discussed creating a page for all of this - we?ll do in the wash after this crazy week :stuck_out_tongue:

Just checking, is the maintainer meetup in an hour or so?

Yes, it's

I'm going to skip tonight folks, as I have a presentation I need to prep for at a conference tomorrow. One action would be to fix/update the maintainer meet reminder in the channel :joy:

I think it is at 10:15 for me (in 11 mins)

I will add the dates/times to the google calendar tomorrow and share the link here and in YouTube. Might have a go at setting the Slack Bot now. After looking at the times with Josh ad Tien in the meeting today we wanted to suggest alternating between 0900 UTC and 2100 UTC.

I forgot to press record on this weeks meeting Zoom :disappointed:

I was thinking, instead of a Google Calendar link, can we just export the event's `.ics`?

Hey @tien.xuan.vo - Got a load of the reviewed PR?s merged for you in Pact-PHP, and reviewed others and merged. Would you like to consider an alpha3 release soon? If so, I can help with that, or we can get you promoted so you can start merging your reviewed PR?s

After https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-php/pull/335#issuecomment-1760766234, we can close that PR and I'm looking forward to alpha3

Docker has sent a threatening letter, which is odd because we?re on an OSS account. I?ll chase it up.

I was about to ask, thanks Beth. Just a small $300 USD bill :laughing:

I released version alpha3

Awesome nice stuff dude!

Hmm I saw those this weekend, quite roood pal

So they gave us a nice coupon so it was free last year, but it hasn?t been applied this year, assume it will be the same deal. Happy to chase up if you need to Beth

Reminder: REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:!

^^ lies!

deleted

They replied saying that we have to re-apply for our OSS status every year. So I?ll fill in their paperwork again, and remember to keep the answers for next year.

Was the meeting still on today? Or did I miss it with timezones/daylight saving changing?

Argh, I totally forgot also sorry (was out last night)

Argh!!! Found the rogue pact-support email address! Killed it with fire now.

REMINDER: maintainer catch up happening in 5 minutes :clock1:!

(ok 4 mins)

Nice to see you all - the progress is :amaze:

Hey team, I won't be able to make tonight's catch up sorry. Hope it goes well!

@jo.laing Joining the catch up as well?

:blobwave:

PHP downloads by version - you can grab it via an API https://packagist.org/packages/pact-foundation/pact-php/downloads.json ```10.0.0-alpha1 / 17 10.0.0-alpha2 / 607 10.0.0-alpha3 / 4``` You can also get all time ```{"total":698368,"monthly":25440,"daily":986}``` cc: @tien.xuan.vo

RE: Python ? docs:- https://pypistats.org/api/ ? stats:- https://pypistats.org/packages/pact-python

Hey team, We?ve created a calendar invite with dual time zone sessions, details below in screenshot. Created with https://ical.marudot.com/# Time zone sessions alternate weekly between ? 9am-9:45am UTC ? 9pm-9:45pm UTC Hope this helps!

should it be a repeated event? I imported it to Google Calendar and I can see it is a single time event.

Yes it should be - we'll get it sorted

thanks for letting us know

:clap: nice! Once we?re all happy it works, shall we put it up on https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/ and/or on the docs site somewhere?

https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/commit/77ec43518ce9d78041026ba6a02a946531dfec9a tick on the dev rel site, which uses the same/similar content to this section on the docs site https://docs.pact.io/contributing#pact---how-you-can-help so yes good to add there :)

ah, that?s better actually - thanks!

https://pact-foundation.slack.com/archives/C9UN99H24/p1699260669272269?thread_ts=1699260669.272269&cid=C9UN99H24 Interesting feedback for our triage Yousaf! Also, thanks for holding the fort in my absence. You?re an answering machine my friend :pray:

Got an updated invite that now includes a recurring rule `RRULE:FREQ=WEEKLY;INTERVAL=2;BYDAY=WE` The only issue is, Outlook calendars don?t support the repeat aspect. When I imported it into my google cal, it works perfectly

Reminder that our community meeting will be on an Aussie friendly time zone today. If you are GMT based, it will be at 9pm. That should be 9am for our AEDT folks. Hopefully see some of you there! And don?t worry about pinging me if I?m not, I might be doing zoomies on the sim rig

Updated the cal invite https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/commit/43ce8b66fb07ae7b037c6386cb057e6311776df7

I miss you, google

Bazel + Pact :chefkiss: https://github.com/pact-foundation/docs.pact.io/pull/297#issue-1984236438

Be there in a few minutes folks...

it looks to have worked for me? The zoom link doesn?t show in outlook, but the location shows up as a link to slack, which should then have the right pointers to zoom etc.

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on an European/EDT friendly time zone tomorrow, Wednesday 15th. If you are *GMT* based, it will be at *9am*. That should be *8pm* for our *AEDT* friends.

The labels on the Pact-JVM issues keep getting removed. I assume this is some automation you have added?

Can you exclude Pact-JVM and Rust repos from that?

Do they keep getting removed, or were they just removed on July 12? The automation was modified recently to be opt-in

I can?t link to the thread where I stuffed this up because history, but, sorry about that!

I've added some back (most of the old issues are now un-labeled), but I'm assuming they will stay back then

yep they should

I'll try to attend tonight but will definitely be late if I make it (putting kids to bed)

FYI created a new devrel discussion for how we look at telemetry going forward: https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/discussions/28

Has anybody come across https://reproducible-builds.org/ before?

Negative, but this came on my radar re: HomeBrew v recently which is tangentially related https://blog.trailofbits.com/2023/11/06/adding-build-provenance-to-homebrew/

Oh, interesting -> https://slsa.dev/

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on an Aussie friendly time zone today. If you are GMT based, it will be at 21:00. That should be 08:00 for our AEDT folks.

I might be a little late as I'm hopping on a train around that time

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on an UK friendly time zone tomorrow (Wednesday 29) If you are GMT based, it will be at 09:00. That should be 20:00 for our AEDT folks.

Trying to join. My home internet decided to drop out though :grimacing:

Hullo all! Just been trying to add Polly to Slack, but we?ve hit out limit on integrations, I?ve cleaned out some ones added by the community that we don?t use, and there is one straggler called Lucid for LucidChart and LucidSpark. It?s not possibly to remove it directly via Slack, so I?ve emailed Slack support to see if they can :+1:

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on an Aussie friendly time zone today. If you are GMT based, it will be at 21:00. That should be 08:00 for our AEDT folks.

So it transpires we do have 10 integrations. 9 apps, and 1 custom webhook integration, which means 10 in total. Lucid seems to have disappeared from the list now, but wasn?t actually added before (as it would have taken us over the limit, so must have been a UI issue)

:blobwave: Hello fellow Maintainerati! Just to let you know I will be on holiday at the end of today, returning back on the 5th January, I?ll be trying to stay away from the computer but will check in periodically so still here if you need me. Have a fantastic holidays when you do get the chance to finish up for the season. Thanks for everything you?ve worked on this year, we are grateful to have you all as part of the team.

:heart: https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-php/issues/377

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on an UK friendly time zone today (Wednesday 13) If you are GMT based, it will be at 09:00. That should be 20:00 for our AEDT folks.

I have a clash tomorrow morning, so won?t be able to make it for the Australia-friendly timezone (8am AEDT). Merry Xmas to all of you amazing contributors, thank you for all of your help and support in 2023 and can?t wait to see what 2024 brings! :heart:

:wave: Hi all, Merry New Year! :fireworks: Hope you all got a chance to celebrate and relax with loved ones. I?m taking a pass through any unread slack messages/github notifications, but if I?ve missed anything important please DM or `@` me in the right place and I?ll follow up

thanks Matt, happy Christmas and new year all. glad to be back in the fold

Looks like our monthly compute limit was exceeded. Will need to find a solution, as its blocking a Pact JS Core release :thread:

If I understand correctly, there are two paths we can take for (at least Mac M1and Linux ARM support): 1. Use their runners and add credits (minimum $20 USD per credit purchase) 2. BYO infrastructure (e.g. AWS) I?m confident I could get SmartBear to pay for either, probably, but definitely the AWS account. It would need to be made a child account of another SmartBear, but just for billing purposes. We?ll retain admin permissions

I recall Yousaf did some numbers a while back, but that will be lost to slack history (probably, as I think it was before we made a public maintainers channel)

I?d like to support them (Cirrus) if I can, and buying credits isn?t that expensive. I think we could double our usage for about $20 USD a month. It?s hard to know if we?d go much over that, because usage has been capped since they introduced limits:

Hey chap, Oh noes. I found the thread https://www.linen.dev/s/pact-foundation/t/13592341/aww-sad-news-about-cirrus-ci-and-free-runner-use-https-cirru hmmm so that would be $117 for Mac credits + $15 for Linux = $132 /mth Cirrus pricing https://cirrus-ci.org/pricing/#compute-credits 1000m = 15 credits = $15 66.66667m = 1 credit = $1 1m = 0.015 credits = $0.015 GitHub pricing https://github.blog/2023-10-02-introducing-the-new-apple-silicon-powered-m1-macos-larger-runner-for-github-actions/ MacOS M1 is $0.12 a minute for large, $0.16 for XL on GH These are 3/4 vcpus, whereas Cirrus costs are per vcpu GH looks to be, by my naive calculations cheaper, plus is higher aligned with our other workflows, only thing we would miss out on would be arm64 linux but we would probably be able to get away with arm linux under our free tier on cirrus

fyi, I?ve built the prebuilds for arm64 versions on my laptop and added them to the draft release, and kicked off the failing release check, so that will get us out of a bind for the mo

Thanks for doing that dude, that?s great.

What about running our own hosted runners for Github on e.g. Amazon Mac and linux ARM agents?

Is another option reducing what gets built on those runners to purely master builds/release only?

(that might already be the case, btw)

> Is another option reducing what gets built on those runners to purely master builds/release only? limiting builds is prudent, I was a bit fast and loose whilst there was no limits. > What about running our own hosted runners for Github on e.g. Amazon Mac and linux ARM agents? Yeah that isn?t a bad shout, the gh images are available (they use Packer) so we can make sure they have near enough the same stuff on them. We can limit their use as well to keep costs down

Is the pricing with GitHub per user though? I seem to recall that was the reason we couldn?t do that in the past

Pretty sure GitHub is per minute of use of each worker. Also regarding the `aarch64` Linux builds, I get around that for Pact Python by using `qemu` virtualisation and a `aarch64` Docker image. It is _slow_, but at least it works. This would ensure that everything basically runs the same.

See https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-python/blob/53518e6f8442bbd9f467799a5e903887657f0ae8/.github/workflows/build.yml#L90-L130

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on an UK friendly time zone today (Wednesday 24 JAN 2024) If you are GMT based, it will be at 09:00. That should be 20:00 for our AEDT folks.

Couple of workshop updates for Java https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-workshop-jvm-spring/pull/24 https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-workshop-Maven-Springboot-JUnit5/pull/4 Along with https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-workshop-go/pull/9 need to roll out all the changes to the README?s and steps

Thanks Jo! Unfortunately I have a meeting clash tonight, I?ll jump in if it finishes early.

No worries!

Started on a Python workshop https://github.com/YOU54F/pact-workshop-python Couple of snags that stop it being as aligned with the other workshops 1. no request filters in python, can use custom provider header, but I can?t see a way of validating that the header is present before adding the customer provider header, so it can be used say per request (for an authenticated state) and not for unauthed states a. workaround - use custom provider header b. caveat - header injected, may not exist in client pact 2. no ability to verify pact by URL, can retrieve from broker by consumer version selectors, or directly from URL a. workaround - use docker based verifier Both are feature reqs against the project, already open.

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on an Aussie friendly time zone today. If you are GMT based, it will be at 21:00. That should be 08:00 for our AEDT folks.

see you there!

oooh https://github.blog/changelog/2024-01-30-github-actions-introducing-the-new-m1-macos-runner-available-to-open-source/

> Today, GitHub is excited to announce the launch of a new M1 macOS runner! This runner is available for all plans, free in public repositories, and eligible to consume included free plan minutes in private repositories. The new runner executes Actions workflows with a 3 vCPU, 7 GB RAM, and 14 GB of storage VM, which provides the latest Mac hardware Actions has to offer. The new runner operates exclusively on macOS 14 and to use it, simply update the `runs-on` key in your YAML workflow file to `macos-14`.

I got this email on the 20th RE: Docker sponsored open source subscription. I know @bethskurrie was chasing it up before. Does anyone have updates, or would you like me to pick up the mantle and chase them up? On a Docker related note, is there any reservation about publishing images to GitHub?s container registry ( as well as DockerHub)? We got an ask about getting AWS ECR verified, but it appears that GHCR should solve most peoples ails with dockerhub rate limits https://github.com/pact-foundation/pact-stub-server/issues/61

Perks of being an open source maintainer - Free co-pilot. https://github.com/github-copilot/free_signup

Great idea! I think Beth was following it up, but hasn?t been in slack for a bit. I?ll schedule a message for her morning

ty dude, no rush on this, I?m _not_ sure of the impact but I don?t think it?s major, probably lose the insights tab

Might be throttled too?

https://docs.docker.com/trusted-content/dsos-program/ not sure if by developers if means users of the image, or creators of the image

We only really leverage the _removal of rate limiting for developers_ I would say. Publishing to ghcr should be fairly trivial, so a nice alternative motion we can do whilst we wait for Docker

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on a UK friendly time zone tomorrow (Wednesday 07 Feb 2024) If you are GMT based, it will be at 09:00. That should be 20:00 for our AEDT folks :pactflow-platypus-slack:

I won?t be able to make that sorry folks, I have a suit fitting for an upcoming wedding :baby_penguin:

Sorry, I won't be able to attend either.

no worries gents. Matt good luck with the fitting, I?m sure you will look properly dappa

will be joining in 5 minutes ty

Got Alpine and Pact-JS playing ball last night, after the new release of pact 0.4.15 with musl based variants. What is really bizarre though, is I initially linked it to the `.a` file, and we get a `musl` prebuild. I assumed it was linked to the `.a` file, but actually it is quite happy with the `.so` file which is non-musl, as long as it has a `musl` based prebuilt node file. :head-splode:

Interesting. I'm wondering if the archive is embedded in the node file

that is plausible ```du -sh js/prebuilds/linux-arm64/node.napi.musl.node 46M js/prebuilds/linux-arm64/node.napi.musl.node```

prebuilds are here that contain the musl flavoured node prebuild https://github.com/YOU54F/pact-js-core/releases/tag/v15.0.0 you can unpack the archive into the root of a js project, or anywhere and set the `PACT_PREBUILD_LOCATION` to use it with a released version of pact-js

Yeah, `.a` files don?t get linked at runtime, they are compiled into (statically linked) the artifact itself

You can test it working by removing the .so file in your musl tests. If there is no dynamic library on the system and it works, you know the `.node` file has everything it needs

Yep it is embedded and it?s all you need :raised_hands:, managed to build the mock and stub server, verifier, plugin cli, and protobuf plugin linked against musl, and get a pact js grpc test working in Alpine For the vanilla tests in pact-js-core tested against alpine 3.13 -> 3.19, and from node 14 -> 20 (despite our node engines locking at 16 - 14 throws a warning) plugin driver and cli need updating to detect musl and try and install those variants. interesting wee meander

Awesome work sir!

Managed to get it rocking in pact-go, pact-php and ruby, woop woop

fyi tracking progress here https://github.com/pact-foundation/devrel/issues/30

:mega: Reminder that our community meeting will be on an Aussie friendly time zone today. If you are GMT based, it will be at 21:00. That should be 08:00 for our AEDT folks.

I am unlikely to make it tomorrow as my wife has been called in to work (she?s back teaching as a relief teacher) and I have to do kids morning/school drop off routine etc. Josh is also moving homes, so might be a quiet one

no worries homies, that is totaly fine. cheers for the heads up. have a good day with the kids and Josh best of luck with house move!

Yeah, got the reminder... And I won't be able to make it :sweat_smile: Currently have a half empty apartment and a half full truck

so last night i decided to see how much effort it would to create a musl based traveling-ruby implementation, as I?d gained some decent knowledge of the build system after updating it to OpenSSL 3.2.0 it?s aliiiiiive https://github.com/YOU54F/traveling-ruby/releases/tag/rel-20240215 actions run with pact ruby standalone https://github.com/YOU54F/pact-ruby-standalone/actions/runs/7915718214

You?ve managed to resurrect Ruby from it?s demise. The question is, will this just be putting it on life support or should we put it out of its misery :stuck_out_tongue:

Next you?ll be working out how to compile it into a binary so it doesn?t need the Ruby runtime!

well.. ahem https://github.com/natalie-lang/natalie it has crossed my mind :sweat_smile: in all honesty, I?m just liking the consistency, of being able to support musl based distros with both the ffi and ruby considering we still use it for the cli it means getting rid of our alpine guidance page might be a full on reality